Business As Unusual
B a U

A conversation on the way we think ,interact and transact. Exploring how the world of business and community is being reshaped in the digital age.

Season 3

Convo 9: How to manage a narrative 

Join us as Pat and Joe dive into what happens to narratives over time. In this convo they ask they explore how narratives evolve, how they grow and how they end. They lay out some rules for how to create a narrative, manage the legacy of a narrative when it dies and what do you do with the body

Convo 8: Narrative Theory 

Join us as Pat and Joe dissect the purpose of narrative and its application in building communities and strong communication strategies. The convo explores what constitutes a narrative, how it can be captured via the tools of branding and how do you build a sustaining narrative that enables forward momentum for an organisation.

Convo 7: Stories are Exchanges

Join Joe and Pat for the first of our convos on storytelling. In this episode they peel back the layers of story to see what is really held in the exchange between teller and listener. We examine how stories shape our experience, inform our views and are the part of the secret sauce of humanity. 

Convo 6: Who is responsible 

In the final installment of our deep dive into the role of media we discuss the balance of responsibility between the individual who consumes it and the creators who make it. Pat and Joe assess old and new media, how past media revolutions have parallels to what is happening today and some simple ways to understand how to consume media without losing your own compass. 

Convo 5: Media enters its community age

Join in the third part of the discussion on the good, the evil and the in-between of media. In this weeks convo we explore the emerging role of community as the main moderator of digital media, how the value exchange has changed over time between consumer and producer and dig into who really owns our eyes in the attention economy.

Convo 4: Stories Create Advantage

Join in the second part of our discussion on media exploring the role that community plays as the centre in a media landscape of small and large players. Joe and Pat explore how communities now act as narrators, sources of truth and how compelling stories told well can create advantage for all.

Convo 3: Media Who

Joe and Patrick sit down, screen to screen and asses the media of today. They explore how in a digital age Media is being reshaped by the competing forces of framing and fragmentation. They explore how we have moved from The News to News and how Community has become the new source of defacto truth.

Convo 2: Status Quo is changing

In our latest installment of BAU we explore the current Covid context and the future of education. Joe and Patrick turn their attention to examining what really lies behind the silk curtain of traditional edu, the start ups approaching skill development differently, the two parallels with the aviation and automotive sectors and what is next as the category dynamics change. 

Convo 1: What to do now 

In our new ongoing segment BaU puts their creative minds into how Government could approach our Climate Emergency. Joe and Pat look at where Government policy sits under ScoMo (Aus government of the time), how to best brand a path forward to Net Zero and what type of narrative will best shape behaviour change. 

Picking up on the origins of Patrick and PUR

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Joe attempts to interview the master questioner Patrick Beggs on all things storytelling. We cover how Pat tells data stories through the eyes of the community who created it, how he views the role of content in building connection and the origins of Picking Up Rocks or as we all know it PUR Productions 

Momentum is Key

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In our BaU reboot episode Patrick interviews Joe on how he started his business, The Contenders. We chat what made him jump on the wave and we untangle a method for sticking the takeoff and what it takes to sustain success 

We are back

As Covid of the delta kind has been reeking havoc around the world across the world we have been busy dealing with its consequences. We are now back with some reflections and a renewed focus on observing and discussing the topics that are changing the way we think interact and transact. See you next week

Season 3

Is life naturally full of inequality or is it made unequal through our actions?

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Joe and Patrick set out the three questions that they each will pose to an expert. We hope to explore the history of inequality in Australia, how we should define it, how to measure it, has tech and the pandemic made it worse and is it about more than economic opportunity? Share your queries and join us next time when we pose these questions and more to an expert in the field. 

Inequality, what does it mean?

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Joe and Patrick begin their deep dive into what Inequality means in a Covid riddled world, they address the unequal elephant in the room and look forward to what they can do in re-framing the conversation in this four part deep dive. 

True Reflections on Data Storytelling

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On a windy day up on the Cape, Pat and Joe reflect on what they have learned across their deep dive into the emerging world of Data Storytelling. 

They discuss whether it builds myth or breaks it, examine if data has bias or just the humans that interpret it and close with an exploration of what subject they will deep dive into next.


Ask an expert. Telling stories with data

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Join Joe Rogers and Patrick Beggs for an in depth conversation with Alli Torban on all things data visualisation. We discuss what it is, why it works, how to understand your bias and manage the gap between your source and the needs of your audience to communicate insight.

Alli is an Information Design Consultant based in Washington, D.C., and host of the podcast Data Viz Today <> . She specializes in designing data visualizations and infographics for industry experts to help get their work seen and understood by a wider audience. In her spare time, Alli has fun creating whimsical patterns and tessellations!

Further resources relevant to the conversation can be found here 

Data storytelling or stories told with Data?

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Joe and Patrick discuss whether Data is myth busting or myth building, share what they have found to date and frame their thre questions each for next weeks guest Alli Torban

What is Data Storytelling

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Patrick and Joe dig into defining what it is, why it matters and what we would like to learn. Join in for a discussion of whether myths and beliefs matter, how if Michelangelo was to paint a chapel today would he ask for Non Fungible Tokens in return and why data is turning into our new source of truth. 

Joe’s idea, BaU 2.0 explained.

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Patrick and Joe get on the level with where they are taking BaU 2.0. Deeper dives over four episodes into the subject matter that shapes the way we interact and transact. First up, Data Storytelling.

Season 2

The Questioner

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Stefaan G. Verhulst

Join us for an engaging and in-depth conversation with leading digital governance academic Stefaan G. Verhulst, of NYU’s GovLab where we talk all things data stewardship. We explore who owns your data, how it is governed and how to ask better questions to create a brighter future for us all. Stefaan shares his ‘questioneerring’ framework and points out how we must move from being data rich to decision driven by data, to move past the polarisation in our public lives. He also offers insights into the more pressing issues of 2021 and data, its governance and its use in innovation and problem solving.

Further resources relevant to the conversation can be found here 

The Bridge 

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Joe and Patrick

Join us for a conversation with hosts Joe Rogers and Patrick Beggs as they reflect on the year that was and the year that will be.

They lay their experiences bear and share thoughts on some of the hurdles that change makers will face in the coming year, as well as discuss the power of listening as an action towards change.

Gardening for the future

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Nic Rose

Join us for a conversation with Nic Rose, CEO of Sustain, as he takes us into the incredible survey of the Australian Gardner. With over 9,000 respondents, the survey collectively captures what it means to have access to soil to toil. 


Nic is a believer in the power of relationships and networks to move mountains, transform societies and change the course of history.


“My goal,” he explains, “is to work collaboratively with individuals and organisations who share the vision of fair, sustainable and resilient food systems.”

Investor in Creativity

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Craig Batty

Join us for a conversation with Dr Craig Batty, the incoming Dean of Research: Creative at the University of South Australia, as we ask why it’s more important than ever to invest in creativity and culture. We discuss the re-rise of the creative class, why we all need spaces and places to be creative, and the role of the creative arts in innovation and progress.


Craig is the author, co-author and editor of fifteen books; and has been published widely on the topics of screenwriting practice, screenwriting theory, creative practice research and creative doctorates. Craig is also a screenwriter, script consultant and script editor, with experiences in short film, feature film, television and online drama.


Financial You

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Cassandra Steeth

Join us for a conversation with award-winning journalist and former supervising producer of the hit ABC podcast Ladies, We Need To TalkCassandra Steeth.

Cass is now on a mission to help women to achieve financial independence in her new role as senior writer for Verve Super, a feminist, ethical superannuation company.

Cass speaks to us about how we must find new ways to bridge the gap in financial gender inequality, why co-contribution is a must-have conversation between couples, and how we can all invest more ethically

The Internet Gardener

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Nikki and Sarah

How do you measure change? A conversation with ORS Impact’s CEO Sarah Stachowiak and Senior Consultant Nikki Kalra who join us from Seattle to discuss how in the For Purpose sector it is vital you systematically and cost effectively measure the change you are seeking to make. 

We discuss different models, frameworks and end our discussion perhaps on its most important point, deciding the business of change you are in. Are you seeking systemic and long lasting change or incremental short term change? 

ORS consulting works across North America with social justice-minded organisations to plan, learn and measure the impact of their work.

The Internet Gardener

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Tom Critchlow

Join our conversation with Tom Critchlow, Co-Founder of Quoteback, a browser tool that allows you to copy and store text quotes as you read content from the Internet.


Tom joins us from amongst the cactus of Arizona to discuss the world of blogging, the emerging field of narrative strategy and how it applies to business, life and politics. Tom outlines how Quoteback is designed to free smaller voices to find other interested individuals and why being able to follow your interests across the Internet is more important today than ever.

The Ethical Banker

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Corinne Proske

Join our conversation with Corinne Proske, Founder of Speckle, a not-for-profit fintech company, which delivers an ethical alternative to payday lending. 

Corrine highlights the importance of understanding how our emotional relationship with money affects our financial and social wellbeing.

We discuss how the model of ethical lending outcomes is changing the future of investing and how Australia’s Super Funds are unique in their ability to influence our global future. We finish by taking a look through the data on spending trends in Australia arising out of the COVID pandemic and discover whether Joe will still be able to have a piggybank in a cashless world.

The Advocate

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Margot Foster

Join us to for a conversation with Community Activist and ex ABC journo, Margot Foster, who helped lead the charge to create the green heart of Abbotsford by protecting the historic convent from redevelopment.

Margot shares her experience in learning to influence change through not saying a outright no but providing genuine alternatives where all involved can say yes. We speak to Margot about the role of large institutions like the ABC in shaping our cultural norms and her insights into what it takes to create real community change. 

The Questioners 

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Joe and Patrick

In today’s episode we set the scene for the end of 2020. Joe and Patrick don their thinking caps to explore what Covid has unveiled across our cultural, social and economic institutions and whether this is a permanent shift.


They discuss the new barriers to participation and change making that are appearing, the fallacy of predicting tomorrow based on today, and outline the key questions they will be exploring with guests in Season 2 of BaU.

The ReMaker

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Craig Middleton

Join our chat with Craig Middleton, Curator at the National Museum of Australia, Fellow at the The Australian National University and Co Author of Queering the Museum, for a deep dive into remaking what a museum can and could be.

Craig takes us through his groundbreaking work in queering the museum where Queer is used as a verb to drive a more inclusive, reflective and immersive space that reflects the diversity of Australian identity and life. 

The Reformer 

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Michael Perusco

Victoria has the highest rate of the removal of children from their birth family in Australia.

Michael Perusco, CEO of Berry Street, joins us for a conversation on why and how we need to shift our thinking away from a system grounded in the late and punitive to one informed by a safety first early intervention model to create a fairer system for families and children. A model that deals with causes, rather than outcomes.

Season 1

 The Start 

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Joe and Patrick

Joe Rogers and Patrick Beggs, the hosts, talking about the podcast project, BaU, before it was what it is today.

The conversation is the first time the two put microphones in front of their faces, before any guests had been interviewed, offering an honest glimpse into the thinking behind the concept.

Hands on Learning

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Conor Hickey

In this conversation we get to hear the story of Conor Hickey.

She is the CEO at Collingwood Children’s Farm, the oldest continued practicing farm in Victoria, Australia. Conor with a background in inclusive education through community connections has a passion for hands-on learning in nature and her story demonstrates the benefits of the approach and process for creating inclusive, vibrant, productive and diverse communities.

The Artist 

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Alasdair MacKinnon

Alasdair is one of the driving forces behind The Boroughs, recognised for its role in telling the story of Brunswick East. It has played a central role in the creation of a community focused on art, design and sustainability. 

Their store is famous for its work with local makers and being the retail expression of neighbourhood and community.

The Futurist 

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Bec Scott

Bec Scott, the futurist, shares her story.

Bec is not afraid to walk their own path. She lives most of her time imagining potential futures, learning from the history around her and applying that knowledge to bring her dreams into reality.

Bec Scott, co-founder of STREAT, is a passionate social entrepreneur working to address complex environmental and social issues. 

The healer, the listener

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Judy Atkinson

Judy Atkinson shares her remarkable story of following her own path to learning, understanding and healing.

Judy Atkinson identifies as a Jiman / Bundjalung (Aboriginal Australian) woman who also has Anglo-Celtic, and German heritage. Judy is an Emeritus Professor.
She developed the We Al-li program which was used as a foundation stone for the Masters in Indigenous Studies (wellbeing); the undergraduate degree Trauma and Healing, and the Diploma of Community Recovery. 

The Innovator 

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George Hedon

George  Hedon is the founder and CEO of the world’s leading creativity infused business event, Pause Fest, an independent, industry-driven movement with a mission to bring diverse intelligence together to fuel the next generation. 

We wanted to hear about the opportunities they see and the hurdles they face when dealing with the changing social landscape of mass gatherings.’

Climate Health 

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Fiona Armstrong

Fiona Armstrong is a social entrepreneur, public policy expert and researcher, author, and reform advocate whose qualifications and experience span a range of disciplines and sectors.
She is a global leader in the area of climate and health advocacy and has conceived and led a number of internationally significant projects in this area.

She is the Founder and Executive Director of the Climate and Health Alliance

Purpose design

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Simon Goodrich

Simon Goodrich is Co-Founder of Portable, a digital innovation company that helps forwarding thinking organisations to transform the way they work. 

Over the past five years, Simon and the team at Portable have been hacking the bureaucracy, trying to solve some of the technological discrimination in usability and accessibility in digital. 

The Painter of Perspective
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Glen McMinn

Glen McMinn offers his refreshing perspective on travelling openly through the arc of life. Glen has been many things, architect, designer, historian, hockey dad, entrepreneur and now a painter exploring a concept called 10 of 1. Through it all he has been Dyslexic, which he speaks openly about, and he calls aspects of he views as a superpower.

Join us as Glen takes us through his story of focus empowering people, communities and organisations to share their own tale. 

The Power of Voice 

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Madeleine Habib

Madeleine Habib joins us from a wintry Tasmania to offer a timely reminder not to underestimate the power of your own voice in enacting the change you want to see in the world.

Madeleine is a Master Mariner who has lived a life of service to humanitarian and environmental causes from the shores of the Mediterranean to the coastline of Antartica. Working on the front lines with SOS Méditeranée, Sea Shepherd, Greenpeace, MSF and the World Food Program has given her a unique perspective into effecting real world change, one person and one action at a time. Be the change, Be the voice.

Notice Ability 

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Dean Bragonier

Dean Bragonier, founder and the executive dyslexic at NoticeAbility, shares his story of changing the way society understands dyslexia through changing its approach to educating children with Dyslexia.

Dean joins us from Cambridge, Massachusetts to discuss the neuroscience of dyslexia, the educational approach required and the work left to be done. Dean inform us on the history of dyslexia, why standardised testing sucks and share the stories of some famous dyslexics throughout our history. 

The Conduit

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Sam Patterson

Sam Patterson joins us to discuss about building connections inside communities at risk through the power of story. 

Sam is the Director of Community Engagement at MacKillop Family Services and shares his approach to creating the connection between funding the cause and the direct delivery of the service. We talk all things home schooling, the challenges ahead for foster care and why horse trainers tell such great tales.

The Inclusionista 

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Dr Sue Thomas FRSA

Dr Sue Thomas FRSA  joins us from a surprisingly sunny Scotland to discuss how the ethics of fashion are underpinned by the choices we make as customers in response to what we design into the ways of consumption.

Sue takes us behind the scenes of the content she developed as part of her pioneering MSc Ethics in Fashion for the School of Textiles and Design ethics. Today, Sue continues her work turning up the heat on how the conversation around inclusion, sustainability and industry ethics must change and how some businesses are leading the way.

The Anti Distruptor 

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Dipayan Ghosh

This week we hear from Dipayan Ghosh, Harvard fellow, White House Alum and Author of Terms of Disservice: How Silicon Valley is Destructive by Design.

We talk about the effect that the monopoly held by big tech from facebook to Amazon has had on our lives and how we have unwittingly traded our privacy for utility. We explore how we are heading from a democratic era and rapidly into a Dystopian digital future free of meaningful discourse. Dipayan also shares his view on the odds of this changing and what we as individuals and communities need to know and do. You can find out more on Dipayan’s work here

The Curiosity Surfer

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Scott Cane


Scott Cane, one of the drivers of Australia’s first native title case, joins us from Port Lincoln for an uplifting chat about his approach to life and advice on how to grow through failure.

Scott is a self-professed surf bum whose curiosity and trust in following his nose for waves has led him through the wilds of Tasmania, to Australian National University to ensuring Aboriginal Australians are rightfully recognised as the true custodians of this land.

The Referee

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Gavin Morris

Join us for a discussion on truth telling with Dr Gavin Morris, an ex-NRL referee from Sydney who now acts as a leading social referee.
Gavin talks about his involvement in documenting a truth telling in the Nauiyu Community, and the ways in which it enables better community outcomes for its people. He also discusses how the unique approach, methodology and intention shaped his doctorate thesis, which investigates the trauma associated with the experience of colonisation in an Aboriginal community. Finally, Gavin discusses two decades of teaching experience in schools around Australia.
Gavin lives in Darwin and currently lecturers in undergraduate and postgraduate programs in the College of Education at Charles Darwin University. 

The Review

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The wrap

Join Joe Rogers and Patrick Beggs to review season one of #BaU. From the lows of figuring out portable pandemic studios to the highs of great guests covering topics such as indigenous rights, dyslexia, community reform, social media as societal kryptonite, and art. Listening to our guest’s process has been a big ride and an even bigger privilege. Pearls of wisdom have fallen out of each one of our guests.

 Our big learning? For real change to occur it takes small incremental steps with consistent sustained effort. Nothing happens overnight, not even a podcast.
A huge thanks to all who joined us

Hope you have been enjoying the ride as much as we have. Season two starts in a couple of weeks.

Joe Rogers

Joe is famous for crafting brands which deliver results for those who work for them, shop for them and support them. 

He is the CEO and Co-Founder of The Contenders, a brand and business design Consultancy based in Melbourne and Sydney. 



Patrick Beggs

Patrick’s on a mission to drive cultural change through narrative strategy.

He is the founder and MD of PUR Production, a podcast and video studio creating inclusive, diverse and vibrant media. A specialised studio renowned for finding and defining Story Community for its clients.

BaU is made from coffee, beer and surf, and the shared realisation that to be your true self is an act of service for your work, family, community and yourself.